Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

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GamerFromTheWeb
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Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

Post by GamerFromTheWeb » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:35 am

Hey guys, it's been a while since I've posted a level here (and when I say a while, I mean around a year) and I've had a level already uploaded for a little while and I thought I'd share it here. I've wanted to make a proper water stage for a while, and I finally have gotten to making one.

Changes from V1 to V2:
- Removed Rain entirely
- Made earlier combat sections easier
- Changed backgrounds in order to fit with the removal of rain
- Elevator sections are now more forgiving
- Added a bit more to the ending section

ID: 384494
Playable Link: https://megamanmaker.com/?level=384494
Difficulty & Length: Medium & Long
Gameplay: Traditional

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Last edited by GamerFromTheWeb on Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pr.A
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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 380994)

Post by Pr.A » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:36 pm

This level has many interesting ideas. The use of the conveyor belt and Searchy is well introduced and the ennemies are used in many ways (Oshitsu Osarettsu with the conveyors belt used for a difficult fight / The Cargou Q in the water changing The course of these balls...). The aesthetic is superb and the architecture is varied.

However, I find that the difficulty of the level absurd, especially with the use of the conveyors belt with 1 tile. The Required jump precision is high then with an enemy, You must have dexterity to control your jump. The omnipresence of spikes accentuate the difficulty of each jump (again) and some screen are very difficult at different levels (a screen before the first boss with a Cargou Q, a Shrink, spikes on the ground, the ceiling, and sheep blocks who appear only in this screen / the second phase of the elevator where the spikes are numerous / a screen with a Searchy and two Oshitsu Osarettsu with conveyors belt and again spikes / a screen just before the final boss where if you aren't reactive enough, you die because of spikes / and, after the third checkpoint, there is a passage where you jump from tile of conveyor belt at tile of conveyor belt, in the rain at 1 of power where just after a Oshitsu Osarettsu and a Searchy block you the way, and personally, I skip this screen inparticular using the damage boost). Finally the bosses are good but the last is horrible especially when you can't use your other weapons.

I think my opinion on the difficulty of levels where the best level is the one who is certainly hard but accessible for everyone and even if this difficulty is desired, this level is too hard for me (I still managed to succeed after 40 minutes).

P.S.: (Tell me if there are faults, thanks.)

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GamerFromTheWeb
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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 380994)

Post by GamerFromTheWeb » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:33 pm

Pr.A wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:36 pm
This level has many interesting ideas. The use of the conveyor belt and Searchy is well introduced and the ennemies are used in many ways (Oshitsu Osarettsu with the conveyors belt used for a difficult fight / The Cargou Q in the water changing The course of these balls...). The aesthetic is superb and the architecture is varied.

However, I find that the difficulty of the level absurd, especially with the use of the conveyors belt with 1 tile. The Required jump precision is high then with an enemy, You must have dexterity to control your jump. The omnipresence of spikes accentuate the difficulty of each jump (again) and some screen are very difficult at different levels (a screen before the first boss with a Cargou Q, a Shrink, spikes on the ground, the ceiling, and sheep blocks who appear only in this screen / the second phase of the elevator where the spikes are numerous / a screen with a Searchy and two Oshitsu Osarettsu with conveyors belt and again spikes / a screen just before the final boss where if you aren't reactive enough, you die because of spikes / and, after the third checkpoint, there is a passage where you jump from tile of conveyor belt at tile of conveyor belt, in the rain at 1 of power where just after a Oshitsu Osarettsu and a Searchy block you the way, and personally, I skip this screen inparticular using the damage boost). Finally the bosses are good but the last is horrible especially when you can't use your other weapons.

I think my opinion on the difficulty of levels where the best level is the one who is certainly hard but accessible for everyone and even if this difficulty is desired, this level is too hard for me (I still managed to succeed after 40 minutes).

P.S.: (Tell me if there are faults, thanks.)

I think that I'll probably go over this level again and reduce the difficulty, because when I had people playtest it they found it extremely difficult, but they said they liked it so I didn't really change anything. And as for the Sheep Blocks, originally I had it so the player just drops down onto the conveyor belt but I felt that it was way too bullshit for like what, the 10th screen so I added those. Anyway, a new version will be posted soon.
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Tyler-bot
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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 380994)

Post by Tyler-bot » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:14 pm

- I tried this stage as well, and I agree with pretty much everything the guy above said. It most definitely had great ideas (That run through the rain portion with the sheep blocks was intense!) and the visuals were top-notch, very atmospheric with a good sense of architecture. But those 1-tile combat segments were a little crazy.... not ultra difficult, but maybe the player just falls down some and has to re-gain the firing position for punishment instead of insta-death... That's something I've been noticing lately... Insta-death stuff should be used very sparingly. Dying to combat situations generally just 'feels' better than dying at nearly full health because you miss-timed an enemy projectile by a frame or two and then fell into a pit/spikes. Either way, I'm definitely going to try the reworked version!

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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

Post by GamerFromTheWeb » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:17 pm

Alright, I updated the level!
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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

Post by Tyler-bot » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:41 pm

- Alrighty! This is an improvement, for sure. Although I still have minor issues... mainly concerning combat-situations.

Here's my first example:

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The player drops down and the Quargyo (Whatever it's called :lol: ) is perfectly level with Megaman when he lands... I can simply just stand there and spam shots from a completely safe distance. Sure he might fire a bouncy at me but I usually have him dead before he can get more than one out. I would lower the ground to the left so the player at least has to jump upwards and somewhat time their shots to connect.

Second Example:

Image

Again, the player drops down and lands perfectly level with the enemy. What is worse is the conveyor farthest to the right pulls the player into the wall. I would reverse the direction so it pulls players 'towards' the spikes and raise the enemy a little so the player not only has to jump and time shots, but contend with the conveyor trying to pull them into death. or maybe a pit that slows them up?

And one final thing: Checkpoint before Pump-man please. I got to him with half health and then died only to have to start all over. Even if this mid-boss is relatively close to the beginning, there should still be a checkpoint IMO.... Always a checkpoint before a boss no matter what :lol: ! Anyhoot, this was still overall pretty good. I think if you spice up combat a little more this could be truly awesome!

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Nigel Chinclucker
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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

Post by Nigel Chinclucker » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:50 am

I think the difficulty might be easier to stomach if there were more/bigger health items in the level. The way the level is designed, it's extremely difficult to get through without nearly dying. The conveyor belts don't mix well with Oshitsu; specifically, the one before the first boss is on a belt that moves you toward it. Between trying to kill it and also trying not to run into it, I didn't have much ability to avoid losing too much health no matter how many times I did it.

Also, I think the boss room with Pump Man is another example among many I've seen in MMM; where makers try to add difficulty to a boss by placing enemies/hazards/gimmicks in the room, they end up just making the fight annoying. And again, if I had more health, it probably wouldn't be much of a problem. But the conveyor belts and Pump Man's shield make the room more cramped.
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Fati98
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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

Post by Fati98 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:07 am

My only problem about this level is lack of checkpoints before some boss fights. Just put a checkpoint and that's all. Also there is something about last boss which isnt actually problem its just me. I wouldnt use pump man again and pharaoh man doesnt fit the levels theme. Otherwise that boss battle is tricky that you should time your moves perfectly.
Anyway this level is very good at everything else. I can't understand what people find too difficult here even though you updated it. I died only two times and one of them at the part elevator goes down i couldnt figure out what to do when some narrow places comes which isnt your fault because it was obvious what to do here i just couldnt react fast second was at bubble man fight i just dropped at spikes accidentaly that's all.
Anyway this level definately is great.Good job!
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Also it would be nice if you play some of my levels.(They could be hard)
-Magnetic Central:https://megamanmaker.com/?level=324429
-Deep Ruins:https://megamanmaker.com/?level=330609

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memelord69
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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

Post by memelord69 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:59 pm

I agree with the other dude. The lack of checkpoints is just annoying. The paths leading up to the fights are finely tuned in difficulty, and the bosses are finely tuned in difficulty, but combined, it just becomes a grind. Checkpoints help break the chore.
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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

Post by Tyler-bot » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:05 pm

memelord69 wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:59 pm
I agree with the other dude. The lack of checkpoints is just annoying. The paths leading up to the fights are finely tuned in difficulty, and the bosses are finely tuned in difficulty, but combined, it just becomes a grind. Checkpoints help break the chore.
- Definitely! My main issue is the time it takes up. Some people may have limited time to be on the game... or maybe they have short attention spans.... whatever the case may be: You have to keep the player feeling like they are getting somewhere. When I'm surfing levels, I don't want to find a good one (like this for example) and then have it turn into a slog because I die and have my progress removed.... It's all about progress, dude. Some builders try and argue that placing very few checkpoints (or even just 'no checkpoint before bosses') adds challenge but it's really a dumb argument.... Getting through a bunch of genuinely challenging rooms makes a player feel good, you are giving them a fun experience.... but when they suddenly miss-time one minor jump (or even a major one, makes no difference, really) and they have to go through those 9-10 screens all over again just to catch back up and see more of your level, it gets exasperating very quickly. Especially if there is no checkpoint before a boss-chamber and the player only has half of their health.... oh man is that ever annoying! :lol: So in summary: ALWAYS A CHECK-POINT BEFORE BOSSES! :lol:

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Re: Unfiltered Facility (ID: 384494)

Post by Nickelasse » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:29 pm

Awesome stage Imo, even though it is on the harder side.

My only small nitpick would be that I never really felt like pharaoh man fit the final boss room. That's about it, otherwise I enjoyed the stage from start to finish!

Anyways, It feels like you level up with each consecutive stage you build.

I recorded this playthrough as well, here it is if you'd like to check it out.

Image

Building easier levels made me realize how difficult it is to keep a stage "light" yet interesting at the same time. It is a fun challenge projected to the creator rather than to the player. ;)

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