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The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:58 pm
by Amur0
Hi everyone

I have been thinking about dislike button and I consider It is a very unjustice option to evaluate levels, because in many oportunities people pushing dislike when they can not beat the levels and no when levels are bad or made incorrectly.

I have seen levels too beautiful and made perfectly, but they have many dislikes!

According this, the dislike button is not a trustwhorty way to evaluate a level.

What do you all think about that?

Best regards!

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:10 pm
by QuartexGames
Well, You're a bit right.
It's just players' fault.
But dislike button shouldn't be.. Deleted.. Or something like that. It's like.... Disliking the dislike button. Well.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:12 pm
by epicawesomeman13
TBH, I just ignore most level ratings. I've played a good amount of highly upvoted levels that I thought were garbage, and a good few downvoted levels I thought were alright.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:30 pm
by Nuclearminer
I think having a dislike button, with the state of people on the internet as huge assholes, is a bad idea. Stages should be rated based on number of likes, without having dislikes. This works well for Mario Maker, usually.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:00 pm
by LightDaemon
I think having a dislike button, with the state of people on the internet as huge assholes, is a bad idea. Stages should be rated based on number of likes, without having dislikes. This works well for Mario Maker, usually.

It's also frustrating having beautiful levels but mostly empty and not challenging (not necessarily bad designed) with TONS of likes and less beautiful levels but challenging and interestingly design (not necessarily perfect) with not enough likes...

In the first case it must have taken the author a few hours if not less, whereas in the other case it could be days of figuring out how to find a great balance between toughness and fairness and at the end it feels like we are not well rewarded.

That's why likes don't matter much to me, as long as any of y'all give me a constructive criticism.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:12 pm
by Rafatenck
The dislike button shows when you play the level... that's bad

The button must appear when you COMPLETE the level. Then you can evaluate

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:16 pm
by LightDaemon
Rafatenck wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:12 pm
The dislike button shows when you play the level... that's bad

The button must appear when you COMPLETE the level. Then you can evaluate
Well actually if the design is garbage one may not want to finish it. That's what Tyler-bot actually did with my first level. I hate you Ty.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:38 pm
by Neo Cutman
I think the dislike button has a function.
In my opinion the best way would be if the levels screen were shown all the likes and dislikes, if the level only has dislikes can be a troll or bad level, if it has the similar amount of likes and dislikes, the level should be just hard and the dislikes may be of whom can not beat this.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:48 pm
by Random Man
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:58 pm
Hi everyone

I have been thinking about dislike button and I consider It is a very unjustice option to evaluate levels, because in many oportunities people pushing dislike when they can not beat the levels and no when levels are bad or made incorrectly.

I have seen levels too beautiful and made perfectly, but they have many dislikes!

According this, the dislike button is not a trustwhorty way to evaluate a level.

What do you all think about that?

Best regards!
Well actually that is 100% based in opinion, you can like the level and think what do you want about it, being good or bad, but that doesn't means that the other player needs to like the level or just have the same skills that you to pass a difficult level, ironically enough the dislike button purpose is not to show if the level is bad, is just to show people opinions about the level, but since everyone thinks different, the only good way to see if a level is truly good, is to play it.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:25 pm
by alencar
I think the problem would be solved if some stats about the level would be showed.

For example:


Image

EDIT: Or add a system like I already mentioned on the feedback forum. I really thing there should be a better way to evaluate and select levels that the MMM team should work on.

Image

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm
by Royalguard
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:58 pm
Hi everyone

I have been thinking about dislike button and I consider It is a very unjustice option to evaluate levels, because in many oportunities people pushing dislike when they can not beat the levels and no when levels are bad or made incorrectly.

I have seen levels too beautiful and made perfectly, but they have many dislikes!

According this, the dislike button is not a trustwhorty way to evaluate a level.

What do you all think about that?

Best regards!
Allow me to use your own reasoning as a counter-point against you:

The "like button" is an equally unfair way to evaluate level. This is because many people upvote a level when they are able to beat it, as a player will usually be feeling a sense of satisfaction and happiness when they overcome a challenge, and are more likely to be generous with their voting. This can lead to levels getting upvotes even if they they may be poorly designed and the positive rating is not properly deserved.

According this, the "like button" is equally as untrustworthy a way to evaluate a level.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:10 pm
by Amur0
Royalguard wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:58 pm
Hi everyone

I have been thinking about dislike button and I consider It is a very unjustice option to evaluate levels, because in many oportunities people pushing dislike when they can not beat the levels and no when levels are bad or made incorrectly.

I have seen levels too beautiful and made perfectly, but they have many dislikes!

According this, the dislike button is not a trustwhorty way to evaluate a level.

What do you all think about that?

Best regards!
Allow me to use your own reasoning as a counter-point against you:

The "like button" is an equally unfair way to evaluate level. This is because many people upvote a level when they are able to beat it, as a player will usually be feeling a sense of satisfaction and happiness when they overcome a challenge, and are more likely to be generous with their voting. This can lead to levels getting upvotes even if they they may be poorly designed and the positive rating is not properly deserved.

According this, the "like button" is equally as untrustworthy a way to evaluate a level.
I don't agree with that logic, because a bad levels with many "likes" how much time did the author spend to make it? Probably 15 minutes, but many great levels with many dislikes how much time did the author spend to make it? Hours and and hours. You can not compare this reality. Of course, we can try to equate both buttons with rethoric and blablablá, but the best authors (who spending a lot of time to make the best levels) are disadvantaged.

I think "dislike button" should not exist. Of course, the unjustice of lots likes in bad levels will continue, but we should face other unjustice, a mayor unjustice: great levels having many dislikes. :|

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:14 pm
by 8JKN4
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:10 pm
Royalguard wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:58 pm
Hi everyone

I have been thinking about dislike button and I consider It is a very unjustice option to evaluate levels, because in many oportunities people pushing dislike when they can not beat the levels and no when levels are bad or made incorrectly.

I have seen levels too beautiful and made perfectly, but they have many dislikes!

According this, the dislike button is not a trustwhorty way to evaluate a level.

What do you all think about that?

Best regards!
Allow me to use your own reasoning as a counter-point against you:

The "like button" is an equally unfair way to evaluate level. This is because many people upvote a level when they are able to beat it, as a player will usually be feeling a sense of satisfaction and happiness when they overcome a challenge, and are more likely to be generous with their voting. This can lead to levels getting upvotes even if they they may be poorly designed and the positive rating is not properly deserved.

According this, the "like button" is equally as untrustworthy a way to evaluate a level.
I don't agree with that logic, because a bad levels with many "likes" how much time did the author spend to make it? Probably 15 minutes, but many great levels with many dislikes how much time did the author spend to make it? Hours and and hours. You can not compare this reality. Of course, we can try to equate both buttons with rethoric and blablablá, but the best authors (who spending a lot of time to make the best levels) are disadvantaged.

I think "dislike button" should not exist. Of course, the unjustice of lots likes in bad levels will continue, but we should face other unjustice, a mayor unjustice: great levels having many dislikes. :|
So you want downvotes to not exist, but upvotes to exist. Great! I can't wait for someone to post another ATOWTC-type level that can't get downvotes. Yeah, makes sense right? Two screens, but the level's so hard you can't get past the first one. Who wouldn't downvote that?

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:29 pm
by Yoshi2018
I would like if instead of a score, there was a shown like:dislike ratio.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:34 pm
by Amur0
8JKN4 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:14 pm
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:10 pm
Royalguard wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm


Allow me to use your own reasoning as a counter-point against you:

The "like button" is an equally unfair way to evaluate level. This is because many people upvote a level when they are able to beat it, as a player will usually be feeling a sense of satisfaction and happiness when they overcome a challenge, and are more likely to be generous with their voting. This can lead to levels getting upvotes even if they they may be poorly designed and the positive rating is not properly deserved.

According this, the "like button" is equally as untrustworthy a way to evaluate a level.
I don't agree with that logic, because a bad levels with many "likes" how much time did the author spend to make it? Probably 15 minutes, but many great levels with many dislikes how much time did the author spend to make it? Hours and and hours. You can not compare this reality. Of course, we can try to equate both buttons with rethoric and blablablá, but the best authors (who spending a lot of time to make the best levels) are disadvantaged.

I think "dislike button" should not exist. Of course, the unjustice of lots likes in bad levels will continue, but we should face other unjustice, a mayor unjustice: great levels having many dislikes. :|
So you want downvotes to not exist, but upvotes to exist. Great! I can't wait for someone to post another ATOWTC-type level that can't get downvotes. Yeah, makes sense right? Two screens, but the level's so hard you can't get past the first one. Who wouldn't downvote that?
You must think carefully man, Breath and calm down.

Who is the most harmed?

1. Who makes bad levels in 10 minutes and gets many likes
2. Who makes great levels spending hours and getting many dislikes

The answer is really easy, and I repeat:

I think "dislike button" should not exist. Of course, the unjustice of lots likes in bad levels will continue, but we should face other unjustice, a mayor unjustice: great levels having many dislikes

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:56 pm
by Royalguard
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:10 pm
Royalguard wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:58 pm
Hi everyone

I have been thinking about dislike button and I consider It is a very unjustice option to evaluate levels, because in many oportunities people pushing dislike when they can not beat the levels and no when levels are bad or made incorrectly.

I have seen levels too beautiful and made perfectly, but they have many dislikes!

According this, the dislike button is not a trustwhorty way to evaluate a level.

What do you all think about that?

Best regards!
Allow me to use your own reasoning as a counter-point against you:

The "like button" is an equally unfair way to evaluate level. This is because many people upvote a level when they are able to beat it, as a player will usually be feeling a sense of satisfaction and happiness when they overcome a challenge, and are more likely to be generous with their voting. This can lead to levels getting upvotes even if they they may be poorly designed and the positive rating is not properly deserved.

According this, the "like button" is equally as untrustworthy a way to evaluate a level.
I don't agree with that logic, because a bad levels with many "likes" how much time did the author spend to make it? Probably 15 minutes, but many great levels with many dislikes how much time did the author spend to make it? Hours and and hours. You can not compare this reality. Of course, we can try to equate both buttons with rethoric and blablablá, but the best authors (who spending a lot of time to make the best levels) are disadvantaged.

I think "dislike button" should not exist. Of course, the unjustice of lots likes in bad levels will continue, but we should face other unjustice, a mayor unjustice: great levels having many dislikes. :|
Your claim was that people could use the "dislike button" for biased reasons, that could be completely unrelated to the quality a level's design.

My counter was that people could use the "like button" for biased reasons, that could be completely unrelated to the quality a level's design.

My argument used the same logic as yours.



Also, I'm not personally a fan of taking away people's rights to have an opinion, be it positive or negative, regardless if I agree with said opinions or not. If the majority of casual players want to upvote bad levels and downvote good levels, then so be it.

By removing the "dislike button" you are essentially enacting censorship of sorts, and it still won't fix the problem of biased player voting. Instead of good levels getting disliked and getting ignored by the majority of players, the good levels will instead get very few votes and still get ignored by the majority of players anyways.



Edit:
Neo Cutman wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:38 pm
I think the dislike button has a function.
In my opinion the best way would be if the levels screen were shown all the likes and dislikes, if the level only has dislikes can be a troll or bad level, if it has the similar amount of likes and dislikes, the level should be just hard and the dislikes may be of whom can not beat this.
Yoshi2018 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:29 pm
I would like if instead of a score, there was a shown like:dislike ratio.
I agree with these statements. Instead of the level score being a single combination score like it is now, it would probably be better of split into two, with the like score and dislike score being viewable separately.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:11 am
by Brazencoronet17
Royalguard wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm
Amur0 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:58 pm
Hi everyone

I have been thinking about dislike button and I consider It is a very unjustice option to evaluate levels, because in many oportunities people pushing dislike when they can not beat the levels and no when levels are bad or made incorrectly.

I have seen levels too beautiful and made perfectly, but they have many dislikes!

According this, the dislike button is not a trustwhorty way to evaluate a level.

What do you all think about that?

Best regards!
Allow me to use your own reasoning as a counter-point against you:

The "like button" is an equally unfair way to evaluate level. This is because many people upvote a level when they are able to beat it, as a player will usually be feeling a sense of satisfaction and happiness when they overcome a challenge, and are more likely to be generous with their voting. This can lead to levels getting upvotes even if they they may be poorly designed and the positive rating is not properly deserved.

According this, the "like button" is equally as untrustworthy a way to evaluate a level.
*insert laughing that makes you look dead inside*

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:14 am
by Brazencoronet17
All kidding aside, I think an idea is that instead of the score being based on the two buttons, each button has a score. For example, in one level:

Positive score (+): 3

Negative score (-): 1

Alternitively, the score cannot go into negatives, but just stop on zero.

But I don't care about the score system anyway...

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:16 am
by Jevedor
alencar wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:25 pm
I think the problem would be solved if some stats about the level would be showed.

For example:


Image

EDIT: Or add a system like I already mentioned on the feedback forum. I really thing there should be a better way to evaluate and select levels that the MMM team should work on.

Image
I for 1 would love your edited ui with the categories. That is stellar.

Re: The problem with dislike button

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:48 am
by Amur0
Royalguard wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:56 pm


Your claim was that people could use the "dislike button" for biased reasons, that could be completely unrelated to the quality a level's design.

My counter was that people could use the "like button" for biased reasons, that could be completely unrelated to the quality a level's design.

My argument used the same logic as yours.
And I replied to you that argument is not good. A bad level with many likes is not the same that a good level with many dislikes, because behind the latter there are hours of hard works. I don't understand why you follow with your idea if I explained this (likes and dislikes do not imply the same).
Royalguard wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:56 pm
Also, I'm not personally a fan of taking away people's rights to have an opinion, be it positive or negative, regardless if I agree with said opinions or not. If the majority of casual players want to upvote bad levels and downvote good levels, then so be it.
It is a little exaggerated to talk about "rights" for a game, but if we follow that line, I have to say that I do not believe Mario Maker developers thought taking away rights to people who plays levels without a "dislike button" (Mario Maker works just a "star button"). In that case, people who hates a level only does not leave a star (a like in MegaMaker).

Of course that It is not a fair method either (because we would think good levels deserve infinity stars,)but it is fairer than megamaker method which covers to you in dislikes. It is not the same a good level with few stars that a level with 2341234234 dislikes.
Royalguard wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:56 pm
By removing the "dislike button" you are essentially enacting censorship of sorts, and it still won't fix the problem of biased player voting. Instead of good levels getting disliked and getting ignored by the majority of players, the good levels will instead get very few votes and still get ignored by the majority of players anyways.
It does not exist a perfect method to evaluate levels, but it exists methods fairer than others, and Mario Maker method is one of them (they are not "enacting censorship of sorts", but they give us a fairer method to evaluate).