The least viable Robot Master from each game

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LeonardMan
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The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by LeonardMan » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:25 pm

Let's be real here, we'll NEVER get all 88 Robot Masters from the 11 mainline games! We'll be very lucky if we get 66 of them. I've been thinking about the attack patterns of the Robot Masters that have not been added yet, and made this list of the least-viable Robot Master for Mega Man Maker from each game...

MM1: Oil Man. While an irregular floor would not completely break him like Gemini Man, it would stop his Oil Slider attack, which would cripple his pattern, similarly to Tundra Man. At least Oil Man has better attacking range with his oil globs, though...

MM2: Heat Man. He would be viable if only his projectiles were able to pass through blocks... but they can't. Couple that with him being unable to jump and he's the least likely MM2 Robot Master to make it in.

MM3: Gemini Man. Everybody knows this one. Gemini Man's pattern is outright DESIGNED for the square boss room, and cannot possibly function in any other environment.

MM4: Drill Man. Hurts me to say it because I want this guy in the game, but even with what I proposed long ago in another post, where we would not stop digging down until he's completely covered by tiles, the effect could still be ruined if he digs into the transparent Air Man tiles or Tornado Man tiles, which would expose his "teleporting". Besides, it's even harder for the game's engine to determine where he will emerge in a custom environment.

MM5: Gravity Man. He would require the entire engine modified just for him!

MM6: Centaur Man. While an irregular floor would screw with his charge attack, the biggest issue would be to determine how he will teleport in a custom environment.

MM7: Turbo Man. Not only he needs a flat floor to move at all, HIS WEAPON requires a flat floor too! This one is doomed.

MM8: Sword Man The only way for him to move is that attack where his upper body "jumps" while his legs slide across the floor... Yeah, that requires a flat floor for the legs and enough space for the upper body to "jump" over you and land perfectly back onto the legs.

MM9: None! Surprisingly, ALL of these guys seem viable for Mega Man Maker! Jewel Man jumps whenever you do so he won't get stuck, Hornet Man jumps over obstacles, Plug Man and Magma Man both move entirely by big jumps, and Galaxy Man can fucking FLY! Splash Woman requires water but otherwise she would work well too.

MM10: Chill Man or Nitro Man These are the two that rely on a flat floor the most to move about, and neither of their projectiles go through tiles.

MM11: About half the roster!! Block Man has this huge monster form, Acid Man would require a good amount of water below him, and Tundra Man needs a flat floor plus his attacking range is pathetic. Fuse Man COULD be done if his conductive grid was a separate level object that you can place everywhere else, and be similar to Bubble Man's water requirement. If MM11 gets a second go in a future update, the two that will make it in will probably be Torch Man and Impact Man.

What I find alarming about these results is that SO MANY of these guys are Fire-themed bosses! And despite the fact I found Oil Man to be even less likely, Fire Man does not fare much better (but at least for Fire Man I do have a solution to increase his downward vertical range: make his small flames affected by gravity). This will mean that almost-half of the fire-themed bosses will most likely not make it into Mega Man Maker! :( ...Makes me more grateful to have Charge Man...

Shadow444
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by Shadow444 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:15 am

Charge Man is a speed type robot master...
And then, not necessarily, that would not incapable robot masters worked exactly as the original. If they can't also work in Megaman Maker, why don't they completely replace artificial intelligence with a new one, with new combat mechanics? Developers can create working conditions for them, yes it will not be canonical, but it will be WORKED! :!:
In the end, the developers changed and improved the operation of some weapons (except for the neddle Man weapon, it is terrible to be honest). For example, a weapon of the same Heat Man, it does not work canonically, and nothing bad is the same. So all is not lost on this score. 8-)

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LeonardMan
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by LeonardMan » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:01 am

Shadow444 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:15 am
Charge Man is a speed type robot master...
Technically, yes. But as far as looks go, and taking into account you choose the elemental weaknesses yourself, Charge Man blends in well as a boss in a fire-based level, you can make him weak to Water Wave and make him give you Flame Blast. It's the same thing as using Magnet Man for an electric level or Toad Man for a water one. Not exactly the element, but a close enough substitute.
Shadow444 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:15 am
the developers changed and improved the operation of some weapons (except for the neddle Man weapon, it is terrible to be honest). For example, a weapon of the same Heat Man, it does not work canonically, and nothing bad is the same.
The changes to the weapons are because, quite frankly, Mega Man has had quite a lot of terrible weapons over the years. Most Robot Master weapons are gimmicky, and many of them are very situational. The Mega Man Maker dev team probably modified them so that the player can use them in more situations (think for example weapon challenge levels). The modifying of the weapons is so that the player has an easier and more fun time using them.

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Royalguard
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by Royalguard » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:16 am

Shadow444 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:15 am
Charge Man is a speed type robot master...
And then, not necessarily, that would not incapable robot masters worked exactly as the original. If they can't also work in Megaman Maker, why don't they completely replace artificial intelligence with a new one, with new combat mechanics? Developers can create working conditions for them, yes it will not be canonical, but it will be WORKED! :!:
In the end, the developers changed and improved the operation of some weapons (except for the neddle Man weapon, it is terrible to be honest). For example, a weapon of the same Heat Man, it does not work canonically, and nothing bad is the same. So all is not lost on this score. 8-)
Mega Man Maker's developers try their best to honor the source material in terms of boss AIs, they want to respect the original boss designs by trying to keep intact most of the main traits they are most well known for.

That said, there are already many bosses in MMM that have different AIs compared to their original counterparts, some like Spark Man are very subtle (1-3 jumps in MMM, 1-4 jumps in MM3) while others like Spring Man are very noticeable (ceiling slam attack completely removed).

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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by Shadow444 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:44 am

Royalguard wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:16 am
That said, there are already many bosses in MMM that have different AIs compared to their original counterparts, some like Spark Man are very subtle (1-3 jumps in MMM, 1-4 jumps in MM3) while others like Spring Man are very noticeable (ceiling slam attack completely removed).
You forgot to mention the second Pump Man attack that wasn't added. Still, i don't see anything bad with making the behavior of some robots a new experiment. I personally don't like Heat Man in everything completely, his appearance with his idiotic face, as well as in terms of attacks. And if do not change his appearance, then it is better to change his AI, for example, to give him the opportunity to walk and jump, and throw lights from time to time, and teleports in the direction of the player, only iif he gets a shot.

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by Blue_Bummer » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:27 am

Royalguard wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:16 am
Shadow444 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:15 am
Charge Man is a speed type robot master...
And then, not necessarily, that would not incapable robot masters worked exactly as the original. If they can't also work in Megaman Maker, why don't they completely replace artificial intelligence with a new one, with new combat mechanics? Developers can create working conditions for them, yes it will not be canonical, but it will be WORKED! :!:
In the end, the developers changed and improved the operation of some weapons (except for the neddle Man weapon, it is terrible to be honest). For example, a weapon of the same Heat Man, it does not work canonically, and nothing bad is the same. So all is not lost on this score. 8-)
Mega Man Maker's developers try their best to honor the source material in terms of boss AIs, they want to respect the original boss designs by trying to keep intact most of the main traits they are most well known for.

That said, there are already many bosses in MMM that have different AIs compared to their original counterparts, some like Spark Man are very subtle (1-3 jumps in MMM, 1-4 jumps in MM3) while others like Spring Man are very noticeable (ceiling slam attack completely removed).
I appreciate the fact that the Devs try their best to make this *feel* like an official Mega Man, and yet any place where they make a change it's always brilliant. :)

On the topic of Pump Man, anyone know why they removed his "Hard mode" extra attack? As far as I can tell it would only have enhanced his use seeing as that attack also went through tiles. Was it accidentally overlooked? :?: Would have made a nice "Low health desperation" extra attack.

With the noted Spring Man change it gives me hope that maybe some of the "harder to fit" RMs can still be possible.

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Zararthur
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by Zararthur » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:46 am

LeonardMan wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:25 pm
What I find alarming about these results is that SO MANY of these guys are Fire-themed bosses! And despite the fact I found Oil Man to be even less likely, Fire Man does not fare much better (but at least for Fire Man I do have a solution to increase his downward vertical range: make his small flames affected by gravity). This will mean that almost-half of the fire-themed bosses will most likely not make it into Mega Man Maker! :( ...Makes me more grateful to have Charge Man...
Well, taking in consideration what the Owl said above, Fire Man himself doesn't need drastic changes to make him viable in MMM.
Also, out of the Fire RMs, we have Flame Man, Pharaoh Man (he's counted by the Wikia as a Fire RM so I'll do too) and Charge Man (well, he shoots coal, but it's very hot coal :D ).

While we do miss some cool Fire RMs, and the "easiest" one to port to MMM is Magma Man, who IMO has a pretty lame fight, we still can get Torch Man and Solar Man, both with very exciting fights.
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Royalguard
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by Royalguard » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:00 am

Blue_Bummer wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:27 am
On the topic of Pump Man, anyone know why they removed his "Hard mode" extra attack? As far as I can tell it would only have enhanced his use seeing as that attack also went through tiles. Was it accidentally overlooked? :?: Would have made a nice "Low health desperation" extra attack.
No idea why they they didn't use Pump Man's hard mode version, but it doesn't bother me that much, I'm just happy he made the cut to begin with.

Also, who knows, Metal Man has a toggle to enable/disable the ability to change the directions of cogs and conveyor belts, maybe a similar toggle could be applied to Pump Man to enable/disable his hard mode AI in a future release.
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:27 am
With the noted Spring Man change it gives me hope that maybe some of the "harder to fit" RMs can still be possible.
Fuse Man seems like a choice that could work in MMM, if the wires in the background that carried the sparks where either made into a separate object, or removed.

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by Blue_Bummer » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:33 am

Royalguard wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:00 am
No idea why they they didn't use Pump Man's hard mode version, but it doesn't bother me that much, I'm just happy he made the cut to begin with.
Same.
Royalguard wrote:Also, who knows, Metal Man has a toggle to enable/disable the ability to change the directions of cogs and conveyor belts, maybe a similar toggle could be applied to Pump Man to enable/disable his hard mode AI in a future release.
Which is a great feature and a great idea towards further customization for future RMs!
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:27 am
With the noted Spring Man change it gives me hope that maybe some of the "harder to fit" RMs can still be possible.
Royalguard wrote:Fuse Man seems like a choice that could work in MMM, if the wires in the background that carried the sparks where either made into a separate object, or removed.
This is such a great concept. I hope the Devs take you up on it. Being able to use Fuse Man's grids as a level object would be an excellent new customizable level hazard. 8-)

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D-Man
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by D-Man » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:34 am

Some other bosses that wouldn't work too well:

Pirate Man: Relies on a lowering tide to move around in his bubble, and the water is essential for dodging his Remote Mines. The mines can't pass through walls, either. Finally, his only action out of water is to raise the tide again.

Ground Man: Mainly for the same reasons as Drill Man, he also needs a ceiling to transform into a giant drill. I'm also not sure if his Spread Drill can be consistently dodged, as sometimes he splits it, and sometimes he doesn't.

Astro Man (&Bass Version): Part of his attacks involve moving in a U-shaped path back and forth while he fires shots and makes Copy Visions of himself. His AI would probably break if something were to block his path. Also, we already have Astro Man in the game,

Dynamo Man: An overall functional boss with a diverse movepool, but when his health gets low, he recharges his health at the ceiling, and the player needs to get on both sides of the charger to stop him. Removing the charger could make him a viable boss for MMM, but it will also take away the one niche he has.
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List of Weapon Analyses I made: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10244

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: The least viable Robot Master from each game

Post by Blue_Bummer » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:41 am

LeonardMan wrote:MM11: About half the roster!! Block Man has this huge monster form, Acid Man would require a good amount of water below him, and Tundra Man needs a flat floor plus his attacking range is pathetic. Fuse Man COULD be done if his conductive grid was a separate level object that you can place everywhere else, and be similar to Bubble Man's water requirement. If MM11 gets a second go in a future update, the two that will make it in will probably be Torch Man and Impact Man.
Impact Man has a huge transformation as part of his attack routine (like Block Man) so he'd be out.

I think Torch Man and Tundra Man would be the most likely. My reasons why are...

The Devs choose one Power Gear and One Speed Gear RM each (Example: Blast Man and Bounce Man for 1.6).

Torch Man is a great fit as is (Power Gear).

Tundra Man (Speed Gear) would need some tweaking on his attack pattern to have greater varying jumps for multiple types of floors. The Devs edited Spring Man so it's a possibility.

Granted Tundra Man is limited to attacking only directly above and beneath himself but that attack can go through tiles. His main strength would be his speed in attacking via contact damage. Edit his jumping ability and that contact damage quality could be strengthened and made more viable.

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