Guts Man

Post feedback or suggestions for the game
Post Reply
User avatar
Feliboom04
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 12:31 pm
Location: Andalusia, Spain

Guts Man

Post by Feliboom04 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:25 am

With the Super Arm and the guts blocks announced I thought of Guts Man, one of the easiest RM to code.

Pattern:

-Jump
-If jumped to the left/right repeat jump
-If jumped straight attack.

Why?
-He makes earthquakes
-Easy to code
-His attacks are splattershot after touching a solid tile
-He can be combined with other RM to make a wily machine
-Memes (Guts Man @$$) ;)


Comment which RM should be in 1.7
Currently Working on my Mega Man Fangame made by this platform

Unconditional fan of Mega Man

User avatar
LeonardMan
Posts: 1672
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:55 am

Re: Guts Man

Post by LeonardMan » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:13 pm

Feliboom04 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:25 am
Comment which RM should be in 1.7
MAGMA MAN!! ...and Solar Man too. There aren't enough fire-themed bosses, and people must be getting tired of ALWAYS facing Flame Man at the end of fire-themed levels.

User avatar
Feliboom04
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 12:31 pm
Location: Andalusia, Spain

Re: Guts Man

Post by Feliboom04 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:58 pm

I share you POV, Magma Man and Solar Man are very good picks for 1.7, due to the lack of fire RM and being Magma Man very easy to implement, Solar Man is a bit more complex, but still easy to program.

Hope one/two of them are in 1.7!
Currently Working on my Mega Man Fangame made by this platform

Unconditional fan of Mega Man

User avatar
DestroyerOfDestruction
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:42 am
Location: Colombia
Discord: BigMaster#4335
Contact:

Re: Guts Man

Post by DestroyerOfDestruction » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:18 pm

Guts Man should have an option to customize his Super Arm Blocks, similarly to his boss rematch in Mega Man 1.
I am currently moderating the three main community platforms.

User avatar
14Protoman
Posts: 976
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:24 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Guts Man

Post by 14Protoman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:12 pm

DestroyerOfDestruction wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:18 pm
Guts Man should have an option to customize his Super Arm Blocks, similarly to his boss rematch in Mega Man 1.
I am with it.

User avatar
Blue_Bummer
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: Guts Man

Post by Blue_Bummer » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:54 pm

LeonardMan wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:13 pm
Feliboom04 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:25 am
Comment which RM should be in 1.7
MAGMA MAN!! ...and Solar Man too. There aren't enough fire-themed bosses, and people must be getting tired of ALWAYS facing Flame Man at the end of fire-themed levels.
I'm with you on Magma Man, but I don't think Solar Man should be added in.

My Reasons:

One of the next two RMs from MM eleven will be Torch Man based on requirements for RMs.
One of the four RMs from MM & B will be Burner Man based on requirements for RMs.

Personal opinion: Solar Man's pattern, while fitting MMM requirements, has a boring pattern.

Personal opinion: Would rather have Strike Man or Commando Man from MM10 instead of Solar Man.

SMAAASH!!! Puppy
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:52 am

Re: Guts Man

Post by SMAAASH!!! Puppy » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:45 pm

Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:54 pm
One of the next two RMs from MM eleven will be Torch Man based on requirements for RMs.
One of the four RMs from MM & B will be Burner Man based on requirements for RMs.
Not necessarily.
Acid Man, Tundra Man, and Fuse Man are also viable picks, so they could be picked instead. (Acid Man's Speed Gear phase is less complicated than it looks, and while Tundra Man would generally be made easier with custom terrain, he isn't outright broken by it.) I'd argue Block Man and Impact Man are as well, but it does depend on how they want to handle their Power Gear phases.

Similarly, Cold Man, Astro Man, Pirate Man, and Tengu Man are also all viable picks (though Cold Man is admittedly the least adaptable since he doesn't summon his cloud until after he hits half health. With this restriction removed, he would function perfectly fine though.).

User avatar
Blue_Bummer
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: Guts Man

Post by Blue_Bummer » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:31 pm

My reason for thinking is, as it stands, MM Eleven's top choice for remaining Robot Masters (meaning the least hurdles to clear to get ingame) is Torch Man. He fits the known criteria perfectly, with no necessary changes.

Tundra Man is the second, albeit not near as interesting (at face value).

Same on Burner Man if they ever do MM&B. Out of all the MM&B RMs he is one of few of that game that fits the criteria perfectly (for working in custom rooms, as is, no changes) and presumably be a top pick based on that known criteria.

That's my analyses with the current atmosphere of RMs we have. It's not to say that the Devs may change their perspective, make an exception, or do something new (they do all the time). So of course my theories mean nothing more than that. They're just theories. :)
SMAAASH!!! Puppy wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:45 pm

Acid Man... viable pick (Acid Man's Speed Gear phase is less complicated than it looks,
I disagree. Here's why.

It's been stated by the Devs that things they desire to add to MMM must work in a variety of custom environments.

It's also obvious the Devs want the original patterns as intact as possible when bringing RMs into MMM.

Acid Man would require a level object (acid) in his room for his pattern to work. The Dev team, while taking occasional liberty in minor edits of RMs, have thus far been very strict with those canonical patterns and won't drastically deviate from them. If they had no problem changing RM patterns then that comment about RMs and uneven floors wouldn't be in the "Deconfirmed List."

Same with Fuse Man. The Devs would have to separate him from his room object thus drastically altering his attack formula. Seems a stretch as they've never done it before, but hey, doesn't mean they won't ever.

As it currently stands though they've shown great displeasure on changing RMs drastically, so with this in mind I lean away from Acid and Fuse as picks.
I'd argue Block Man and Impact Man are as well, but it does depend on how they want to handle their Power Gear phases.
Their huge forms wouldn't fit in custom rooms well, which would require drastic changes, which the Devs currently frown on.
Similarly, Cold Man, Astro Man, Pirate Man, and Tengu Man are also all viable picks
Burner Man, Cold Man, Magic Man, and Pirate Man I think are the most likely.

I personally theorize that Tengu Man will be picked from MM8 eventually.

SMAAASH!!! Puppy
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:52 am

Re: Guts Man

Post by SMAAASH!!! Puppy » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 pm

Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:31 pm
I disagree. Here's why...Acid Man would require a level object (acid) in his room for his pattern to work.
The acid pool adds some context for the attack in the original boss fight, but it wouldn't be too farfetched to have him pull off the attack without it considering his Acid Barrier ability. As long as the speed gear phase can be programmed into the game (and I'd be willing to bet it can) Acid Man is 100% viable.

EDIT: I'd imagine the entire dive offscreen would have to be faked with an animation as the Robot Master traverses the terrain normally or through the use of teleportation, but I think it would definitely be doable. The latter would be the better functioning, though probably more difficult to impliment method.
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:31 pm
Same with Fuse Man. The Devs would have to separate him from his room object thus drastically altering his attack formula. Seems a stretch as they've never done it before, but hey, doesn't mean they won't ever.
It doesn't affect his pattern at all actually. He activates those rail thingies with a snap, and then starts or continues on with his pattern. Whether or not the rail thingies were in the room would only change the fact that this snap actually does anything. The AI itself is unaltered, and the fight as a whole is only altered as much as Spring Man's is (there's just one less thing to worry about).

His functionality with an object in his way makes him a better fit for Mega Man Maker rather than a worse one, and he can still be added faithfully to the game even when keeping customization in mind.

User avatar
Blue_Bummer
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: Guts Man

Post by Blue_Bummer » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:30 pm

SMAAASH!!! Puppy wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 pm
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:31 pm
I disagree. Here's why...Acid Man would require a level object (acid) in his room for his pattern to work.
No he doesn't. The acid pool adds some context for the attack in the original boss fight, but it wouldn't be too farfetched to have him pull off the attack without it considering his Acid Barrier ability. As long as the speed gear phase can be programmed into the game (and I'd be willing to bet it can) Acid Man is 100% viable.
Ahh.... That's thinking outside the box. :idea: Truthfully it wouldn't be too far fetched for Acid Man to just turn into a ball of acid and dash across the room... No pool required... :)

Would the Devs go for that though? We'll have to wait and see.
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:31 pm
Same with Fuse Man. The Devs would have to separate him from his room object thus drastically altering his attack formula. Seems a stretch as they've never done it before, but hey, doesn't mean they won't ever.
It doesn't affect his pattern at all actually.
When I typed formula I was referring to the whole of his pattern + object, and not specifically Fuse Man's pattern. Without the circuit objects in the background the formula of the fight is different, even though Fuse Man's pattern could still be preserved separately.🤔
His functionality with an object in his way makes him a better fit for Mega Man Maker rather than a worse one, and he can still be added faithfully to the game even when keeping customization in mind.
Truthfully I could live without the fuse circuits in his room and would be very satisfied with just Fuse Man. The real question is, would the Devs be comfortable with that? That's where it really counts, how the Devs feel about it.

SMAAASH!!! Puppy
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:52 am

Re: Guts Man

Post by SMAAASH!!! Puppy » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:16 pm

Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:30 pm
fuse circuits
Ooh! That's a perfect name for them!
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:30 pm
When I typed formula I was referring to the whole of his pattern + object, and not specifically Fuse Man's pattern. Without the circuit objects in the background the formula of the fight is different, even though Fuse Man's pattern could still be preserved separately.🤔
The way I see it is that Fuse Man operates exactly the same with the Fuse Circuits as he does without them, and the fight as a whole can still be recreated 1-1 with the placement of those Fuse Circuits. Therefore, it is an incredibly faithful recreation even when separating the object and the boss. And since the only change is a minor tweak that is doesn't even effect things under the original circumstances of the boss fight (which isn't the case of the minor tweaks of Robot Masters like Spring Man and Napalm Man) I'd say that it would be a change the devs would be willing to implement it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Block Man and Impact Man, I think there is a simple solution to their Power Gear phases that wouldn't impact their AI or fight much, and that would be to have them destroy any tiles in their way. This isn't something they have been shown to be able to do, but it doesn't not make sense, and it would both insure that the Robot Masters are allowed to gain this huge size without breaking, and also work within custom arenas.

To clarify on how this would work, both Robot Masters would destroy a huge chunk of terrain around them when forming to allow their larger form to exist. After that, any tiles that collide with the side of the Robot Master would be destroyed. For Block Man, this could even level the ground so that his third phase works perfectly.

I think it would still allow for a faithful recreation of the boss fights since the AI isn't actually being altered, just break-proofed.

User avatar
Blue_Bummer
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: Guts Man

Post by Blue_Bummer » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:09 am

SMAAASH!!! Puppy wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:16 pm

The way I see it is that Fuse Man operates exactly the same with the Fuse Circuits as he does without them, and the fight as a whole can still be recreated 1-1 without the placement of those Fuse Circuits.
I assume you mean without? Your paragraph makes more sense to me that way. 😶
Therefore, it is an incredibly faithful recreation even when separating the object and the boss. And since the only change is a minor tweak that is doesn't even effect things under the original circumstances of the boss fight ...
His pattern is completely intact, for sure, but the player's interaction is different because they no longer have to dodge the fuse circuits attacks. Hence how the formula changes (is easier) vs Fuse Man's pattern alone.

Immediately I start thinking of ways to recreate those fuse circuits, like sticking Crash Lifts in the same room with an contact damage enemy on them. Brings us back to the popular suggestion of just making those electric circuits a separate level object (which is an idea I really like).


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for Block Man and Impact Man, I think there is a simple solution to their Power Gear phases that wouldn't impact their AI or fight much, and that would be to have them destroy any tiles in their way.

I think it would still allow for a faithful recreation of the boss fights since the AI isn't actually being altered, just break-proofed.
Hm. What if those tiles are necessary for the gameplay design of the room though? Like platforms allowing for navigation of a given room, parts that are intended to box in certain other elements that work in conjunction with a boss, etc.

The Devs appear to take the approach of trying to use only RMs that are the most versatile, probably because it takes an enormous amount of time/effort implementing RMs into MMM. They're picky because they want the RMs that will offer the most mileage in terms of custom built rooms. If a potential RM constantly breaks rooms by destroying the assets in the rooms, then the most viable room of an RM of that nature would be an empty room. Seems counter-intuitive.

SMAAASH!!! Puppy
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:52 am

Re: Guts Man

Post by SMAAASH!!! Puppy » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:55 am

Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:09 am
I assume you mean without? Your paragraph makes more sense to me that way. 😶
With. Without them the electric orbs don't appear, which has consequences that you state later on in your post.
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:09 am
Hm. What if those tiles are necessary for the gameplay design of the room though? Like platforms allowing for navigation of a given room, parts that are intended to box in certain other elements that work in conjunction with a boss, etc.

The Devs appear to take the approach of trying to use only RMs that are the most versatile, probably because it takes an enormous amount of time/effort implementing RMs into MMM. They're picky because they want the RMs that will offer the most mileage in terms of custom built rooms. If a potential RM constantly breaks rooms by destroying the assets in the rooms, then the most viable room of an RM of that nature would be an empty room. Seems counter-intuitive.
It is a design restriction to be sure, but it's one that I feel that's on par with Robot Masters like Ice Man who only work with either a flat floor or when stuck in a box. It's definitely something that can be designed around. For example, you could place Twin Roaders or something in the ceiling, and when it's destroyed, they charge at you. You could do something similar with Octopus Batteries, or Sniper Joes, or anything really.

You could have a fight where you tackle Block Man's phase 1 while under a low ceiling, and when his Power Gear activates, you now have to run away, and lead him into a pit in order to end the fight because you can't reach his weak point. Impact Man wouldn't destroy the entire room's setup since he jumps everywhere, so he's more flexible when spicing up a traditional boss fight setup.

Both Robot Masters would be fine in support roles as well so long as you weren't meant to attack them specifically, as Impact Man can shake the ground, and Block Man can use Block Dropper in their first phases (assuming Block Man's version of the attack goes through the floor. It might not now that I think about it.).

It's certainly a feature that the devs are more likely to veto, but considering I could theory craft some ways it could be used, I don't think limited creative use is something you'd have to worry about with it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brocoli and 2 guests