Lava for real!

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Croby28
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Lava for real!

Post by Croby28 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:17 pm

Lava
this is one of the most wanted thing in MegaMan Maker from what i am aware of and from what i saw.

Why
it perfectly fits better than just repalcing an oil on fire, plus place oil is not that good either since you need to ignite it first and it looks ugly without fills under it like lava.

How
i have 2 ideas for lava of how it could be implemented.

1st it could be implemented like Water
once you add a block of lava the fills of lava will flow, makes it easier to add.

2nd it could be implemented like QuickSand
if it's a bit complicated to add it like water so maybe add it like quick sand would be good enough, but i guess like water would be more convenient.

Difficulty i actually don't know if adding it like water would be that hard or not but i could say 5/10.
for quicksand like implementation i would say 2/10. (really just make quicksand Instant kill) and 2/10 also for what i experienced myself.

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Happy APPY
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Happy APPY » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:27 pm

They'd have to do some coding I guess but it shouldn't be impossible. Dunno how hard it'd be since I have no experience in coding or how Mega Man Maker does animations, but I feel Lava is kinda something that should've just been in the game already. Lasers need a second to pull up, and of course the aesthetics of lava is going to help a level be just a bit better, and look better, etc. Aesthetics and setting-telling are very big parts of levels.

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LeonardMan
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by LeonardMan » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:29 pm

Happy APPY wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:27 pm
Aesthetics and setting-telling are very big parts of levels.
As far as I'm aware of, the dev team disagrees with that. After all, games like this and Mario Maker appear to be for exploring mechanics and technical level design things. Remember the whole Blast Man debate? They could have put a robot master that fits into an elemental theme, but didn't because Blast Man will still work regardless of how you customize the boss room. Tundra Man would have gotten stuck on irregular terrain and be unable to hit you if you're far away and not directly above or below him.
Croby28 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:17 pm
it perfectly fits better than just repalcing an oil on fire, plus place oil is not that good either since you need to ignite it first and it looks ugly without fills under it like lava.
The main problem is that the dev team appears to see lava as redundant, seeing that we already have fire and spikes, and just "it looks better" won't convince them to add it. In order to convince the dev team to add lava, you have to defend it from strictly a gameplay and mechanics standpoint. For example, Lava could be temporarily frozen by ice weapons, and vertical lavafalls couold be frozen and broken to reveal alternate paths, both mechanics from the Junk Man stage lava.

Basically, give lava behave mechanically like the one in Junk Man's stage, but give it all the other possible skins from all the other lava stages.

Oh! And don't forget the RUNNING lava from Sword Man's stage! That's meant to be used in conjunction with a lava raft.

Happy APPY
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Happy APPY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:30 am

I could think of Skull Barrier allowing you to go under it because skulls dont burn... in mario world ._.
well i mean its magical skulls so

well uh anyway its non-solid death blocks, and they'd fill downward setting a proper atmosphere and fitting with a particular level setting. Level setting is A PART of gameplay.

Atmosphere and level setting are literal aspects of Level Design, which is half of this game's... thing. I don't see how this could be that hard to add.
Last edited by Happy APPY on Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LeonardMan
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by LeonardMan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:16 am

Happy APPY wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:30 am
Level setting is A PART of gameplay.
Ah, I wish the devs would see it that way... But I'm afraid they likely don't. :( Otherwise we'd have gotten the Music Changer.

Happy APPY
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Happy APPY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am

LeonardMan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:16 am
Ah, I wish the devs would see it that way... But I'm afraid they likely don't. :( Otherwise we'd have gotten the Music Changer.
I feel a music changer would be really good for metroidvania levels, the whole thing they were like "oooh you can make these now"... and could be used very cleverly. I'd say a limit of 12 music changes per level would probably be fine, if thats too high, then at least 4. 6 and 8 seem to be also good numbers. I'd say a limit because if spammed it could be very annoying, i chose 12 because that allows 8 robot master stages, and 4 different wily stages.... if people actually intend to use it for making whole mega man games. 10 may be more realistic.

IDK but we should get some form of music changer.

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Croby28
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Croby28 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:49 am

Weird the gif doesn't upload for the lava example

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LeonardMan
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by LeonardMan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:47 am

Happy APPY wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am
I'd say a limit of 12 music changes per level would probably be fine
Nope! Too few...

I've had this Pokemon Red and Blue remake on the works as well as an abandoned room-by-room remake of the first Legend of Zelda. The latter would need AT LEAST 18 Music Changers in the entire level!

Instead, I'd limit it to 1 Music Changer per screen, like backgrounds or the rain effect, wherever in a screen you place it, it occupies that entire screen.

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Neo Cutman
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Neo Cutman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:18 pm

Happy APPY wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am

I'd say a limit of 12 music changes per level would probably be fine, if thats too high, then at least 4. 6 and 8 seem to be also good numbers. I'd say a limit because if spammed it could be very annoying, i chose 12 because that allows 8 robot master stages, and 4 different wily stages.... if people actually intend to use it for making whole mega man games. 10 may be more realistic.
I cant agree, I am in favor of the level creator being free, even if has many bad uses of music change, freedom is needed for good uses to be made. There are several possible types of multi-path levels that would have different uses for music changer.

For example Boss Rush, you can include 10 bosses on one screen, which sounds absurd, but allows great freedom for the creator. And when boss rush was new it was overused on many bad levels but as time went by you could notice that people learned to use it more sparingly and you can see that most levels use only one boss nowdays.

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Blue_Bummer » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:10 pm

LeonardMan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:29 pm

... In order to convince the dev team to add lava, you have to defend it from strictly a gameplay and mechanics standpoint. For example, Lava could be temporarily frozen by ice weapons, and vertical lavafalls couold be frozen and broken to reveal alternate paths, both mechanics from the Junk Man stage lava.

Basically, give lava behave mechanically like the one in Junk Man's stage, but give it all the other possible skins from all the other lava stages.

Oh! And don't forget the RUNNING lava from Sword Man's stage! That's meant to be used in conjunction with a lava raft.
Also don't forget the Lava fountains of MM8 Sword Man's stage and how they interacted with the lava raft. There could be alot of interesting uses with Lava fountains alone and also in conjunction with the lava raft.

Also lava specific enemies like MM Wily Wars Fire Snakey and MM 9 Jump Roller.
Neo Cutman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:18 pm
Happy APPY wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am

I'd say a limit of 12 music changes per level would probably be fine, if thats too high, then at least 4. 6 and 8 seem to be also good numbers. I'd say a limit because if spammed it could be very annoying, i chose 12 because that allows 8 robot master stages, and 4 different wily stages.... if people actually intend to use it for making whole mega man games. 10 may be more realistic.
I cant agree, I am in favor of the level creator being free, even if has many bad uses of music change, freedom is needed for good uses to be made. There are several possible types of multi-path levels that would have different uses for music changer.
Freedom is the right of all sentient beings. --- Optimus Prime :P

You are absolutely right! Freedom in a maker game is paramount. It's impossible to prevent bad level design when the whole point of a game is freedom of creation. Just because an element can be potentially misused is not a good argument to exclude an element.

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ChickenMcNuggets
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by ChickenMcNuggets » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:28 pm

Here's how I view lava...

It would be placed like water, kill you like spikes, allow you to pass through unharmed with Skull Barrier, and can be frozen with ice weapons. While it's frozen, it can be broken.

Other things I see interacting with lava are Pooker's, Lava Rafts, and Lava Geysers.
Does anyone even read this?

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Croby28
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Croby28 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:01 pm

ChickenMcNuggets wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:28 pm
Here's how I view lava...

It would be placed like water, kill you like spikes, allow you to pass through unharmed with Skull Barrier, and can be frozen with ice weapons. While it's frozen, it can be broken.

Other things I see interacting with lava are Pooker's, Lava Rafts, and Lava Geysers.
bruh

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Croby28
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Croby28 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:02 pm

anyway sorry if this is like a self promo but here is the true gif (please check the link)
i added them like the quicksand and they work basically good
https://i.imgur.com/9vzmUYh.mp4

Happy APPY
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Happy APPY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:57 pm

Would you sink in lava with skull barrier, or walk on top of it?

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Croby28
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Croby28 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:26 pm

Happy APPY wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:57 pm
Would you sink in lava with skull barrier, or walk on top of it?
walk

Happy APPY
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Re: Lava for real!

Post by Happy APPY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:12 pm

yeah i think walking on top of it would be cooler.

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