POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

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Do you think enemy projectiles should be able to hit the switch orb on/off?

Yeah! My genius brain understands that would open up even more possibilities for level design.
5
36%
No! I only want the player to be able to use the switch orb.
4
29%
Chicken nuggets.
5
36%
 
Total votes: 14

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Blue_Bummer
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POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Blue_Bummer » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:03 pm

Switch Orbs are the new object announced in last summer's MMM Anniversary announcement that will be present in ver 1.7.



It's unclear whether enemies will be able to strike the orbs with projectiles and also cause them to flip.

This unofficial poll is a way to ask MMM fans if they think enemies should be able to flip the switch on/off with their projectile shots like the player can.

I personally think enemies should be able to flip the switch, because it would add a great degree of diversity in usage of the switch orb. Whether the player shoots the orb, or enemies shoot the orb, it should cause the switching function to occur.

Levels intended for puzzles without enemy interaction could be made if the level designer only wants the player to switch the orb back and forth by either leaving enemies out, or use enemies that do not fire projectiles.

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LJ2007@
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by LJ2007@ » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:44 pm

Simply, you could write as a suggestion that there is in the settings the option that the enemy projectiles interact or not interact with the switch orbs.
.-. :roll:

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Blue_Bummer » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:14 pm

LJ2007@ wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:44 pm
Simply, you could write as a suggestion that there is in the settings the option that the enemy projectiles interact or not interact with the switch orbs.
.-. :roll:
True, that's an interesting option. I try to look for simpler options to achieve goals as opposed to asking the Developers to do extra work, we're already asking the world of this team (who are doing all this for free). Though admittedly any suggestion we throw out there is extra work.

So far it looks as if most people prefer... chicken nuggets (are indifferent to this suggestion). 🤔

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Neo Cutman
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Neo Cutman » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:41 pm

Yes, I think some enemies and objects should be able to activate the Switch Orbs, specifically all enemies, objects and bosses that are electric themed.

Eletriri, Watcher, elec beam, Spark Man and others.

It would be a way to create a new layer of interaction in the game through electrical things.

Image

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Blue_Bummer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:39 pm

Neo Cutman wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:41 pm
Yes, I think some enemies and objects should be able to activate the Switch Orbs, specifically all enemies, objects and bosses that are electric themed.

Eletriri, Watcher, elec beam, Spark Man and others.

It would be a way to create a new layer of interaction in the game through electrical things.
That's really interesting! Why the focus on electric themes?

I personally think that all projectiles of enemies should interact with the switch orb, since it's Mega Man's attack projectiles that trigger the switch. No enemies that do collision damage though because the player can't activate the switch orb by just touching it (unless it's an actual attack like Top Spin).

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Neo Cutman
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Neo Cutman » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:14 pm

Blue_Bummer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:39 pm
Neo Cutman wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:41 pm
Yes, I think some enemies and objects should be able to activate the Switch Orbs, specifically all enemies, objects and bosses that are electric themed.

Eletriri, Watcher, elec beam, Spark Man and others.

It would be a way to create a new layer of interaction in the game through electrical things.
That's really interesting! Why the focus on electric themes?

I personally think that all projectiles of enemies should interact with the switch orb, since it's Mega Man's attack projectiles that trigger the switch. No enemies that do collision damage though because the player can't activate the switch orb by just touching it (unless it's an actual attack like Top Spin).
I think restricting to electrical things is better as it allows the creator to use the other enemies more freely in a room with a red blue switch.

Imagine that if any enemy projectile can activate the red blue switch it would leave the level out of control of the creator in many cases because any enemy who shoots could activate the red blue switch, it would be somewhat chaotic.

Being restricted to electrical objects, realize that we have a reasonable variety of object and enemy behaviors that can generate different challenges.

Examples:

1- as in the image shown you can make it work similar to yoku block using the elec beam.

2-You can create a floor made only with these blocks and you have to prevent the electriri from touching the red blue switch.

3-You may have to attract a Watcher so that it shoots exactly at a red blue switch

4-You can create a challenge in which you need to make an electro guard reach the red blue switch

So by restricting it to electrical objects, you can create challenges to activate the red blue switch with both projectiles and contact.

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Blue_Bummer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:20 pm

Neo Cutman wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:14 pm
I think restricting to electrical things is better as it allows the creator to use the other enemies more freely in a room with a red blue switch.

Imagine that if any enemy projectile can activate the red blue switch it would leave the level out of control of the creator in many cases because any enemy who shoots could activate the red blue switch, it would be somewhat chaotic.
I can see your point, but I think it really all boils down to the level creator and good level design on whether such a mechanic would be chaotic or not.

Bad levels exist already and it's not any of MMM's assets that are at fault for that, It's bad level design.😐

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Blue_Bummer » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:31 pm

A simple fix for preventing enemies from hitting the switch orb.

Add a new object. :idea:

We currently have weapon barriers that prevent players from shooting through them.

What if the Devs added Weapon Barriers that block only enemy projectiles? Let's just call it an Enemy Weapon Barrier. Here's a concept mock-up screen of what an Enemy Weapon Barrier could maybe look like...

Image

An Enemy Weapon Barrier could function exactly like the standard Weapon Barrier, only difference being it blocks all enemy projectiles but allows player projectiles to pass through.

Granted this object is the brain child of keeping the Switch Orb exclusive to the player. Still, If level designers could choose to block either player or enemy projectiles (or both) it would create an ever greater level of design control. With that in mind there would still be merit for an Enemy Weapon Barrier even without a Switch Orb.

Specifically if a level creator didn't want enemies with projectiles hitting the Switch Orb but still allow the player, then just surround it with Enemy Weapon Barriers.

If a level creator didn't want enemies or the player hitting the Switch Orb from a certain angle, they could use both the standard and Enemy Weapon Barriers together.

If level creators wanted to plant a Switch Orb with a single Elec Beam (like in your example image) in a box with no way to hit it with players or enemies, just surround it with standard + Enemy Weapon Barriers. This way only the Elec Beam would be hitting it.

Enemy Weapon Barriers could also create "safe zones" on screens for players in certain circumstances where level creators wanted to separate the player for whatever reason (strategy, take a breath, safe zone/hot zone areas in a screen, etc).

Considering an Enemy Weapon Barrier would be a variant of something already existing in MMM it could maybe be possible without too much extra work. 🤔

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Hikaru The Wizard 1107
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Hikaru The Wizard 1107 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:51 pm

Sería genial si eso sucediera. Abriría nuevas posibilidades para el diseño de niveles. Por cierto, ¿por qué tanta gente eligió la última opción?
I AM THE KING OF MADNESS!

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Blue_Bummer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:38 am

Hikaru The Wizard 1107 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:51 pm
English: It would be great if that happened. It would open up new possibilities for level design. By the way, why did so many people choose the last option?
Either they are indifferent to my suggestion (which is the reason a third option exists, it means "I don't care either way") or they are big fans of chicken nuggets. Maybe a little of both.

And yes... Anyone who has had experience in Super Mario Maker with Switch Blocks would know how allowing enemies to somehow interact with Mega Man's Switch Orb would really expand it's usefulness.

And For the record, Mega Man did Switch Blocks first, not Mario. :P

Allow me to add to the Enemy Weapon Barrier concept on shooting through them. When I say shoot through them I mean via player projectiles that natively pass through tiles, not all player weapons.
For Example:
The Mega Buster, Laser Trident, Metal Blade, etc would naturally go through Enemy Weapon Barriers (not destroying them) just like regular tiles; but something like Bubble Lead, Gemini Laser, Danger Wrap etc would not.

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Hikaru The Wizard 1107
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Re: POLL: Should enemy projectiles activate Switch Orbs?

Post by Hikaru The Wizard 1107 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:14 am

Blue_Bummer wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:38 am
Hikaru The Wizard 1107 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:51 pm
English: It would be great if that happened. It would open up new possibilities for level design. By the way, why did so many people choose the last option?
Either they are indifferent to my suggestion (which is the reason a third option exists, it means "I don't care either way") or they are big fans of chicken nuggets. Maybe a little of both.

And yes... Anyone who has had experience in Super Mario Maker with Switch Blocks would know how allowing enemies to somehow interact with Mega Man's Switch Orb would really expand it's usefulness.

And For the record, Mega Man did Switch Blocks first, not Mario. :P

Allow me to add to the Enemy Weapon Barrier concept on shooting through them. When I say shoot through them I mean via player projectiles that natively pass through tiles, not all player weapons.
For Example:
The Mega Buster, Laser Trident, Metal Blade, etc would naturally go through Enemy Weapon Barriers (not destroying them) just like regular tiles; but something like Bubble Lead, Gemini Laser, Danger Wrap etc would not.
Oh I'm sorry. I forgot to translate this into English (although I know English, but not much)
And on enemy barriers. Maybe this can be achieved with the Yamato spear (if you already used that weapon you will remember that it passes through the enemies) They could also do it with the Mega Buster and I have a solution ... and if they add fake weapons barriers?
I AM THE KING OF MADNESS!

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