Add Doc Robots to the game

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boltgreywing
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Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by boltgreywing » Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 pm

I think Doc Robots would be kind of cool to add, especially in this variety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnXRXje_xME

There something special and funny about them.

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DestroyerOfDestruction
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by DestroyerOfDestruction » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:25 pm

For me, one might as well add the boss Doc Robot is trying to take his powers from.
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supersmashgaming
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by supersmashgaming » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:26 pm

Yes it would be cool, but it's just how would doc robots be implemented.
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boltgreywing
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by boltgreywing » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:31 pm

It will certainly be interesting to see how this would be pulled off.

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Royalguard
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by Royalguard » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:18 am

As much as I would like seeing more love for content from Mega Man 3, Doc Robot unfortunately doesn't really bring much to the table, and implementing him in a larger context would probably be more work than its worth.

As best, from what I've seen of Doc Robot in MM3, his only noticeable difference from the source MM2 Robot Masters is that Doc Robot has a larger body contact hitbox, making him easier to shoot but also harder to jump over. Doc Robot may also fall slightly faster, though not sure of this as maybe my eyes where playing tricks on me during the Doc Crash and Doc Metal fights.

Want Doc Robot to copy AIs of more bosses other than just those he was originally designed for in MM2? His limited sprite sheet would almost immediately become problematic. It would require the developers to create tons of sprites for him just so he'd be able to properly mimic the behaviors of other Robot Masters in MMM, which probably wouldn't be worth the payoff for the effort.

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by Blue_Bummer » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:37 pm

I have some suggestions for Doc Robot that might make this boss more interesting, and perhaps worth the inclusion into MMM.

*What if Doc Robots could switch powers mid fight?

*What if the map creator could chose which powers Doc Robots would use?

*What if the map creator could chose in what order Doc Robots power could cycle?


My idea is similar to the Weapons Archive thread I made months ago, only instead use Doc Robot which might be more feasible.

Frankly if Doc Robot had 1 RM power and functioned exactly the same as that RM then adding Doc Robot would be pretty pointless... BUT if Doc Robot could switch attacks mid-fight it'd make this boss much more versatile and interesting. :idea:

While canonically Doc Robots haven't been seen to switch powers mid-fight, the same model has been seen to house multiple abilities so this concept wouldn't be much of a stretch.

Expanding the boss fight landscape:

I would suggest going beyond MM2 powers, expanding Doc Robot's arsenal to include all MM games RMs.

RMs that are not suitable for MMM could potentially be represented through Doc Robot.

For example Heat Man who requires a flat floor to function. Add his attacks to a Doc Robot who could switch RM powers and pair Heat Man's attacks with a RM AI that functions well in MMM custom rooms, like perhaps Crash Man who leaps. At one point Doc Robot would not be jumping, but then shortly later he would, resolving the conundrum of Heat Man's attack pattern limitations.

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Megamanvwxyz
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by Megamanvwxyz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:39 pm

My suggestion would be since there were two per level in MM3, if Doc Robot were able added to MMM you could select 2 RM's for it to mimic, and it would cycle through both RM's attack patterns, but this would probably be difficult to code, not to mention this
Royalguard wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:18 am

Want Doc Robot to copy AIs of more bosses other than just those he was originally designed for in MM2? His limited sprite sheet would almost immediately become problematic. It would require the developers to create tons of sprites for him just so he'd be able to properly mimic the behaviors of other Robot Masters in MMM, which probably wouldn't be worth the payoff for the effort.
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by SMAAASH!!! Puppy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:56 pm

Royalguard wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:18 am
As much as I would like seeing more love for content from Mega Man 3, Doc Robot unfortunately doesn't really bring much to the table, and implementing him in a larger context would probably be more work than its worth.

As best, from what I've seen of Doc Robot in MM3, his only noticeable difference from the source MM2 Robot Masters is that Doc Robot has a larger body contact hitbox, making him easier to shoot but also harder to jump over. Doc Robot may also fall slightly faster, though not sure of this as maybe my eyes where playing tricks on me during the Doc Crash and Doc Metal fights.

Want Doc Robot to copy AIs of more bosses other than just those he was originally designed for in MM2? His limited sprite sheet would almost immediately become problematic. It would require the developers to create tons of sprites for him just so he'd be able to properly mimic the behaviors of other Robot Masters in MMM, which probably wouldn't be worth the payoff for the effort.
I do think they'd add value in having a theme neutral variant of each Robot Master, and while there would need to be some sprite work done depending on the Robot Master, it would be fairly light on programming. I think they'd be entirely feasible given a gradual release.

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LeonardMan
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by LeonardMan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:14 pm

SMAAASH!!! Puppy wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:56 pm
I do think they'd add value in having a theme neutral variant of each Robot Master
Many robot masters are already theme neutral, particularly the cut-types and bomb-types. It's the entire reason we complained when Blast Man got added instead of Torch Man or Tundra Man! In fact, currently in Mega Man Maker we have more neutral bosses than elemental ones!

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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by Blue_Bummer » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:24 pm

Royalguard wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:18 am
Want Doc Robot to copy AIs of more bosses other than just those he was originally designed for in MM2? His limited sprite sheet would almost immediately become problematic. It would require the developers to create tons of sprites for him just so he'd be able to properly mimic the behaviors of other Robot Masters in MMM, which probably wouldn't be worth the payoff for the effort.
Actually Doc Robot's movement animations seem rather limited, in relation to that I can't help but think minor edits to his sprites would be sufficient in servicing multiple RMs. 🤔
SMAAASH!!! Puppy wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:56 pm
I do think they'd add value in having a theme neutral variant of each Robot Master, and while there would need to be some sprite work done depending on the Robot Master, it would be fairly light on programming. I think they'd be entirely feasible given a gradual release.
Do you mean Robot Masters or Doc Robots? :?:

I would imagine Doc Robot being introduced to MMM with a limited number of RM abilities. Gradually expanding on the amount of RM AIs he has with latter patches.

An emphasis on RM AIs that wouldn't normally work would be ideal. Offering makers the chance to pair AIs to fit custom rooms like in the example I provided in my previous post.

To keep the number of RM AIs a Doc Robot could house to a minimum would be sane, like no more than 2 to 4 different AIs for a single Doc Robot. AI changes in a fight could be marked exactly like the player, with a icon popping up above Doc Robot's head marking which power/AI he's implemented.

Without the multiple AIs concept implemented in Doc Robot I would see him as non-essential and a waste of resources.

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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by SMAAASH!!! Puppy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:50 pm

LeonardMan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:14 pm
Many robot masters are already theme neutral, particularly the cut-types and bomb-types. It's the entire reason we complained when Blast Man got added instead of Torch Man or Tundra Man! In fact, currently in Mega Man Maker we have more neutral bosses than elemental ones!
A little, but even Robot Masters like Cut Man have places where they do and don't belong. Doc Robots don't have this issue i feel.
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:24 pm
Do you mean Robot Masters or Doc Robots? :?:
Doc Robots.
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:24 pm
Without the multiple AIs concept implemented in Doc Robot I would see him as non-essential and a waste of resources.
For the reasons I've stated prior I heavily disagree. They are non-essential, but in no way are they a waste of resources due to their thematic versatility. I also don't imagine they'd take all that much effort in the first place unless they tried to make one for every Robot Master at the same time. Releasing them in waves would be fairly manageable I think.

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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by NMario84 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:06 pm

In all honesty, Doc Robots wouldn't serve that much of an addition to MMM. They are mere copy robots anyway. All they do is copy other robot master abilities, so there's no point really You're better off using the actual roobot master instead.

in a full game like MM3 is fine since its story related, but otherwise a useless sprite swap of an existing robot master..
This also applies to the MM10 Wily Archive bosses. Once again, a mere sprite swap of existing robot master.
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by SMAAASH!!! Puppy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:27 pm

NMario84 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:06 pm
In all honesty, Doc Robots wouldn't serve that much of an addition to MMM. They are mere copy robots anyway. All they do is copy other robot master abilities, so there's no point really You're better off using the actual roobot master instead.

in a full game like MM3 is fine since its story related, but otherwise a useless sprite swap of an existing robot master..
This also applies to the MM10 Wily Archive bosses. Once again, a mere sprite swap of existing robot master.
I disagree about the Doc Robots, but to say the same points apply to the Weapons Archive is objectively false. They don't replicate the Robot Master patterns exactly, and they throw more than one Robot Master inspired pattern at you, so it's a very different fight from any of the actual Robot Masters.

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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by Blue_Bummer » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:56 am

SMAAASH!!! Puppy wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:27 pm
NMario84 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:06 pm
In all honesty, Doc Robots wouldn't serve that much of an addition to MMM. They are mere copy robots anyway. All they do is copy other robot master abilities, so there's no point really You're better off using the actual roobot master instead.

in a full game like MM3 is fine since its story related, but otherwise a useless sprite swap of an existing robot master..
This also applies to the MM10 Wily Archive bosses. Once again, a mere sprite swap of existing robot master.
I disagree about the Doc Robots, but to say the same points apply to the Weapons Archive is objectively false. They don't replicate the Robot Master patterns exactly, and they throw more than one Robot Master inspired pattern at you, so it's a very different fight from any of the actual Robot Masters.
This is the reason I would advocate for a Doc Robot having multiple options of attack in a single fight. Giving them a purpose and established difference from the original RMs than just a copy robot.

Mostly the same sprites could be used for each Doc Robot RM AI, only with projectile differences and maybe minor cosmetic touches (for example the Heat Man flame aura in MM3). All the Doc Robots look the same and that is advantageous in terms of sprite work load.

Doc Robots acting as mobile Weapon Archives could be used in more diverse MMM room setups than the Weapon Archive itself.

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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by NMario84 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:54 am

Well whatever. The AI may not be EXACTLY the same pattern, but the concept is pretty much the same.

Copy a robot master data/ability, which is what both Doc Robot and Weapons Archive do.
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by SMAAASH!!! Puppy » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:15 am

NMario84 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:54 am
Well whatever. The AI may not be EXACTLY the same pattern, but the concept is pretty much the same.

Copy a robot master data/ability, which is what both Doc Robot and Weapons Archive do.
Well sure but the execution provides a largely different result. To lump them together would be to conclude that all characters that do this are the same, which is of course, quite ludicrous considering this would put Mega Man, Proto Man, Bass, the Doc Robots, the Weapons Archive, Dark Man 4, and the Copy Robot all on the same level.

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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by Royalguard » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:31 pm

Blue_Bummer wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:24 pm
Royalguard wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:18 am
Want Doc Robot to copy AIs of more bosses other than just those he was originally designed for in MM2? His limited sprite sheet would almost immediately become problematic. It would require the developers to create tons of sprites for him just so he'd be able to properly mimic the behaviors of other Robot Masters in MMM, which probably wouldn't be worth the payoff for the effort.
Actually Doc Robot's movement animations seem rather limited, in relation to that I can't help but think minor edits to his sprites would be sufficient in servicing multiple RMs. 🤔
Not going to lie, out of personal curiosity, I'd love to see how the devs would try to sprite and animate Doc Robot breaking into pieces when mimicking Bounce Man being hit by a weakness.

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Blue_Bummer
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Re: Add Doc Robots to the game

Post by Blue_Bummer » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:04 pm

Royalguard wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:31 pm
Blue_Bummer wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:24 pm
Royalguard wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:18 am
Want Doc Robot to copy AIs of more bosses other than just those he was originally designed for in MM2? His limited sprite sheet would almost immediately become problematic. It would require the developers to create tons of sprites for him just so he'd be able to properly mimic the behaviors of other Robot Masters in MMM, which probably wouldn't be worth the payoff for the effort.
Actually Doc Robot's movement animations seem rather limited, in relation to that I can't help but think minor edits to his sprites would be sufficient in servicing multiple RMs. 🤔
Not going to lie, out of personal curiosity, I'd love to see how the devs would try to sprite and animate Doc Robot breaking into pieces when mimicking Bounce Man being hit by a weakness.
Hm, good point. The Devs could take liberties following the example of MM3's Dev team. For example with the Bubble Man attacks Doc Robot just fires regular buster shots instead of the little harpoons Bubble Man fires.

So if adjustments were made canonically with Doc Robot then it'd still be accurate to do it in MMM. Doc Robot could just launch adequate bounce balls and himself bounce around the room like Bounce Man (in Doc's default sprite) when struck with weakness. I concede this particular RM emulation could potentially require extensive spriting depending on how it's approached . :\

Truthfully I could see the Devs overlooking some RMs that are already ingame and favoring others that not available for the sake of providing them via Doc Robot. Bounce Man being one to exclude since his attacks/reactions are one of the more complicated RMs actions to emulate.

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