Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

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JJTA1211
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Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by JJTA1211 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:34 pm

Since each type of weakness/immunity is still just one, maybe the limit of each type gets increased.

Primary Weaknesses: 1 to 2
Secondary Weaknesses and Immunities: 1 to 4 each
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D-Man
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by D-Man » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:00 pm

JJTA1211 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:34 pm
Since each type of weakness/immunity is still just one, maybe the limit of each type gets increased.

Primary Weaknesses: 1 to 2
Secondary Weaknesses and Immunities: 1 to 4 each
I like the idea of adding more immunities to bosses. Maybe they can also consider an option to allow bosses to be healed with a weapon (Heat/Freeze Man had this in their respective games)?
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Megamanvwxyz » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:50 am

D-Man wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:00 pm
JJTA1211 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:34 pm
Since each type of weakness/immunity is still just one, maybe the limit of each type gets increased.

Primary Weaknesses: 1 to 2
Secondary Weaknesses and Immunities: 1 to 4 each
I like the idea of adding more immunities to bosses. Maybe they can also consider an option to allow bosses to be healed with a weapon (Heat/Freeze Man had this in their respective games)?
What about option to set weapons to?

High damage weakness
Med damage weakness
Low damage weakness
Normal damage
Half damage
Immune
Heals
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by JJTA1211 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:22 am

Megamanvwxyz wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:50 am
D-Man wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:00 pm
JJTA1211 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:34 pm
Since each type of weakness/immunity is still just one, maybe the limit of each type gets increased.

Primary Weaknesses: 1 to 2
Secondary Weaknesses and Immunities: 1 to 4 each
I like the idea of adding more immunities to bosses. Maybe they can also consider an option to allow bosses to be healed with a weapon (Heat/Freeze Man had this in their respective games)?
What about option to set weapons to?

High damage weakness
Med damage weakness
Low damage weakness
Normal damage
Half damage
Immune
Heals
I guess so...
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Zephadus
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Zephadus » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:06 am

Good ideas all around, maybe we can settle on a compromise.
Here's a little something I put together just now:

Image

2x, 3x, 4x: These multiply the weapon's base damage, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, a 3x will hit for 12.
1/2, 1/4, 1/8: These divide the weapon's base damage, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, a 1/2 will hit for 2.
–: Immune. The enemy will take no damage from this weapon.
R: Recover. The enemy regenerates health instead, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, it will heal 4.
Skull: Instant Death. The enemy is promptly killed, and dies to death.

This should give creators enough options to dial in the desired damage values.
Simply choose a weapon, and cycle through damage options.
"Nothing" is the default, and acts as an empty slot.
If a weapon is chosen that is already present, it is removed and replaced with "Nothing".

Thoughts?
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Megamanvwxyz
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Megamanvwxyz » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:13 am

Zephadus wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:06 am
Good ideas all around, maybe we can settle on a compromise.
Here's a little something I put together just now:

Image

2x, 3x, 4x: These multiply the weapon's base damage, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, a 3x will hit for 12.
1/2, 1/4, 1/8: These divide the weapon's base damage, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, a 1/2 will hit for 2.
–: Immune. The enemy will take no damage from this weapon.
R: Recover. The enemy regenerates health instead, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, it will heal 4.
Skull: Instant Death. The enemy is promptly killed, and dies to death.

This should give creators enough options to dial in the desired damage values.
Simply choose a weapon, and cycle through damage options.
"Nothing" is the default, and acts as an empty slot.
If a weapon is chosen that is already present, it is removed and replaced with "Nothing".

Thoughts?
Nice mockup, like the Insta death weakness idea, similar to Metal Man vs Metal Blade, let's call it Metal Blade syndrome :lol: but, I was thinking slightly less damage for the weaknesses, something like: 1.5x, 2x, 3x, or even 1.5x, 1.75x, 2x, because some weapons like a charged up close Magma Bazooka can already do tremendous damage at just 1x.
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Zephadus » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:55 am

Megamanvwxyz wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:13 am
Nice mockup, like the Insta death weakness idea, similar to Metal Man vs Metal Blade, let's call it Metal Blade syndrome :lol: but, I was thinking slightly less damage for the weaknesses, something like: 1.5x, 2x, 3x, or even 1.5x, 1.75x, 2x, because some weapons like a charged up close Magma Bazooka can already do tremendous damage at just 1x.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. lol
More fine tuning might be okay, depending how it's handled.
I based mine on the current system of weakness.
A secondary weakness does 2x damage, and primary does 4x.

If you think Magma Bazooka is too OP, you could always give it 1/2.
Currently, a charged shot deals 2 units of damage per projectile, for a potential total of 6.
This allows you to ice a guy in about 5 hits.
At half, the regular shot would either do 0 or 1 (depending how the numbers are rounded), and the charged shot would do 1 unit of damage per projectile.
This would make shooting 3 projectiles at once the only benefit of the weapon, either for coverage, or to deal 3 units of damage in one shot.

Also, upon further testing, it seems very few weapons do more than 1 unit of damage to bosses, so it seems that 1/4 and 1/8 are almost assuredly useless concepts. lol
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by LeonardMan » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:35 pm

Zephadus wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:55 am
Also, upon further testing, it seems very few weapons do more than 1 unit of damage to bosses, so it seems that 1/4 and 1/8 are almost assuredly useless concepts. lol
I would personally choose to reduce the options to 2x, 4x, 1/2, -, R, and Skull.

And even if this can't be realized, I would like AT THE VERY LEAST to give the boss the ability to be immune to more than one weapon, in order to create certain challenges and make sure the player cannot cheese them with other weapons.

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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by boltgreywing » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:33 pm

I like the idea of the various multiple weakness numbers but I also like addition to that rule have weapons have the ability to do 1 times damage and even 1/3 since the bass buster and needle cannon have that same ammo damage amount.

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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Zephadus » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:14 am

boltgreywing wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:33 pm
I also like addition to that rule have weapons have the ability to do 1 times damage
1x damage would just be the regular damage, no weakness or resistance, so you would just not assign a weapon to the boss weakness menu. :)
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by BenPlusMM » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:56 am

Zephadus wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:06 am
Good ideas all around, maybe we can settle on a compromise.
Here's a little something I put together just now:

Image

2x, 3x, 4x: These multiply the weapon's base damage, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, a 3x will hit for 12.
1/2, 1/4, 1/8: These divide the weapon's base damage, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, a 1/2 will hit for 2.
–: Immune. The enemy will take no damage from this weapon.
R: Recover. The enemy regenerates health instead, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, it will heal 4.
Skull: Instant Death. The enemy is promptly killed, and dies to death.

This should give creators enough options to dial in the desired damage values.
Simply choose a weapon, and cycle through damage options.
"Nothing" is the default, and acts as an empty slot.
If a weapon is chosen that is already present, it is removed and replaced with "Nothing".

Thoughts?
I agree completely.
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Hyenyaku » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:39 pm

:lol: Well, levels that have bosses with Tornado Blow as their weakness will need multiplied damage feature I suppose.
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Blue_Bummer » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:56 pm

BenPlusMM wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:56 am
Zephadus wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:06 am
Good ideas all around, maybe we can settle on a compromise.
Here's a little something I put together just now:

Image

2x, 3x, 4x: These multiply the weapon's base damage, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, a 3x will hit for 12.
1/2, 1/4, 1/8: These divide the weapon's base damage, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, a 1/2 will hit for 2.
–: Immune. The enemy will take no damage from this weapon.
R: Recover. The enemy regenerates health instead, so if a weapon normally hits for 4 units, it will heal 4.
Skull: Instant Death. The enemy is promptly killed, and dies to death.

This should give creators enough options to dial in the desired damage values.
Simply choose a weapon, and cycle through damage options.
"Nothing" is the default, and acts as an empty slot.
If a weapon is chosen that is already present, it is removed and replaced with "Nothing".

Thoughts?
I agree completely.
Same. I think it's great. Especially since creators can have multiple robot masters in a single level now.

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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by boltgreywing » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:26 pm

Zephadus wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:14 am
boltgreywing wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:33 pm
I also like addition to that rule have weapons have the ability to do 1 times damage
1x damage would just be the regular damage, no weakness or resistance, so you would just not assign a weapon to the boss weakness menu. :)
The problem with that is what if you have five weapons or you want all the weapons to only deal 1 damage? By default you can't select none as an option. So meaning not all weapons can deal one damage. If one damage is added then all weapons can deal one damage.

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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Zephadus » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:19 pm

Not sure what you mean about being unable to select "none".
Modifier 5 in my mockup clearly has no weapon selected.
Any weapons not added to the list would do their default amount of damage.
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by boltgreywing » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:07 am

Zephadus wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:19 pm
Not sure what you mean about being unable to select "none".
Modifier 5 in my mockup clearly has no weapon selected.
Any weapons not added to the list would do their default amount of damage.
What I mean by none is the icon with the big red X in weapon slot 5. In the current verison of Megaman maker the player is unable to select and save the big red X for Primary, Secondary and Resistance Powers.
That is what I am meaning.

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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Zephadus » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:15 pm

boltgreywing wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:07 am
What I mean by none is the icon with the big red X in weapon slot 5. In the current verison of Megaman maker the player is unable to select and save the big red X for Primary, Secondary and Resistance Powers.
That is what I am meaning.
Bosses start like that, with no weakness by default, but you're right that once you've selected a weapon for a weakness, there's currently no way to change your mind back to no weakness, other than deleting the boss and placing a new one.
That is a little strange, given that we have a "Nothing" option in the Weapons menu.
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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by boltgreywing » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:32 am

Zephadus wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:15 pm
boltgreywing wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:07 am
What I mean by none is the icon with the big red X in weapon slot 5. In the current verison of Megaman maker the player is unable to select and save the big red X for Primary, Secondary and Resistance Powers.
That is what I am meaning.
Bosses start like that, with no weakness by default, but you're right that once you've selected a weapon for a weakness, there's currently no way to change your mind back to no weakness, other than deleting the boss and placing a new one.
That is a little strange, given that we have a "Nothing" option in the Weapons menu.
I agree, but in the past the red x was selectable for bosses. Its not fun setting up bosses and then having to delete them all over again if you make a mistake and wanted none for a certain field. Plus the bosses fill the powers in by default, which is even more annoying when you have a list of powers at your hands prior to placing a boss. Which means you have to place the boss, delete the power, then save then come back into megaman maker and that is not a fun experience especially if you have to do it for every single boss. If you could select the red x then there would be no need for this round about way.

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Re: Multiple boss weaknesses/immunities

Post by Zephadus » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:24 am

boltgreywing wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:32 am
I agree, but in the past the red x was selectable for bosses. Its not fun setting up bosses and then having to delete them all over again if you make a mistake and wanted none for a certain field. Plus the bosses fill the powers in by default, which is even more annoying when you have a list of powers at your hands prior to placing a boss. Which means you have to place the boss, delete the power, then save then come back into megaman maker and that is not a fun experience especially if you have to do it for every single boss. If you could select the red x then there would be no need for this round about way.
I didn't realize that it automatically fills them in. Weird.
I guess I've always just set them up and didn't pay attention to what had been there.
However, there's a toggle for the weakness, so even if there's a weapon showing, you can just toggle that weakness off; that is effectively the same as selecting the big red x.
In any case, I still maintain that something like the examples in this thread would be better than the current system. :)
It doesn't need any kind of super fine control, just a few multiplier options.
But perhaps more importantly, I'd like to be able to make a boss weak to more than two weapons.
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