MM10 Bosses Applicability (Part 1)

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D-Man
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MM10 Bosses Applicability (Part 1)

Post by D-Man » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:00 am

This thread is meant to analyze MM10's bosses AI patterns to see which is most suited for putting in MMM. Bosses will be rated from 0-10, with a lower number meaning its AI is most likely to break in custom rooms. This post only includes Normal Mode patterns. Sheep Man is not included for obvious reasons.

Strike Man - Throws a Rebound Striker that bounces across the room six times, homing in on the player on its 3rd and 6th bounce. After throwing, he bounces twice, the first reaching roughly 5 tiles upward, and the second either being a 6 tile high jump, or a long jump spanning about 3 tiles forward. Besides being able to jump out of trenches, he can still threaten the player without his projectiles, and he does not require any special conditions to function. He also shares a lot in common with a previous boss, Crystal Man, as they both have projectiles that bounce off any objects with solid collision, meaning coding that behavior would not be foreign territory. Cannot attack through walls. Applicability: 9/10

Pump Man - A shield-using boss with a basic pattern that consists of deploying his Water Shield, jumping 1-4 times, and releasing his shield in a spiral attack on the final jump. He can do a low jump reaching 2 tiles upward, or a high jump reaching 5 tiles. Does not require water or any other special gimmicks to function, and the spiral attack goes through walls, potentially allowing him to attack anywhere. May be too similar to Plant Man. Applicability: 9/10

Solar Man - Moves solely by jumping in an arc, sometimes firing 1-2 Solar Blazes downward that splits horizontally upon touching solid terrain. His jumps span anywhere from 4 tiles sideways(short), to 7(medium), to 10(long). Shooting his mini-sun will cause it to grow, increasing the size and power of his Blazes. Hitting it with a water-based weapon will instead cause it to shrink, weakening his attack and forcing him to waste time recharging. Getting close to him will cause him to tilt his head for an attack. It's unknown if low ceilings/moving platforms will interfere with his jump pattern, and the thought of a boss with type-based weaknesses is probably enough to deter the devs from considering him. Finally, he has more behaviors than any of game's bosses. Applicability: 4/10

Chill Man - Mostly ground-based boss that either runs or does a 3 tile high long jump towards the player. Is unique in that he can slide on ice just like the player. Attacks by firing two Chill Spikes, one on the ground near the player and the other on the wall on the side the player is standing from him. Chill Spikes can be destroyed with 2 units of damage. Touching the icy gel directly will freeze the player for two seconds, and can be wriggled out of. Creating frozen palletes for player sprites would not be difficult, but his projectiles form into spikes on solid terrain, and his meager jump height limits what can be done in a custom room with high walls/no walls. Applicability: 5/10

Nitro Man - Throws two Wheel Cutters, one forward and one in a high arc reaching 6 tiles high. They both travel forward and up walls, falling towards the player's location once they hit a ceiling. He also tries to ram the player 1-4 times in motorcycle mode, turning if he misses, and doing a wheelie up a wall on his last run. He then throws two Wheel Cutters that flank the player on both sides, before falling towards the player's location and repeating his standard throws while they ride up the walls. It is unknown if his AI will break upon doing a wheelie with no walls, or what would happen if he rode up a wall of Yoku Blocks that disappeared with him on it, but other than that, there should be few problems. Applicability: 7/10

Continued in Part 2... Discuss the aforementioned bosses here.
Last edited by D-Man on Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MM10 Bosses and Their Applicability (Part 1)

Post by TheCreativeEye » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:39 pm

Strike Man is actually one of my most favorites, would be really nice if he was added

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Re: MM10 Bosses and Their Applicability (Part 1)

Post by LeonardMan » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:03 pm

D-Man wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:00 am
the thought of a boss with type-based weaknesses is probably enough to deter the devs from considering him.
But there's currently few water weapons (relatively speaking) in the game! You got only Rain Flush, Water Wave, arguably Danger Wrap, and MAYBE they add Water Shield in this update (does Acid Barrier count as water-type?). In fact, water, ice and electric are the three elements that have the least amount of weapons dedicated to them in Mega Man Maker, with currently about 3 or 4 weapons each.
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Re: MM10 Bosses and Their Applicability (Part 1)

Post by TheKman100 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:26 pm

Blade Man: A solid "No". His attack pattern relies on walls and a ceiling, which can't always be provided for him.

Solar Man: Marginally applicable. In addition to D-Man's concerns of a low ceiling, there's also the matter of the boss room floor. Ladders and Footholders might not be solid enough to split the Solar Blaze, and a perfectly flat floor might make the larger Solar Blazes impossible (or frustratingly hard) to dodge.

Chill Man: So-so applicability. The matter of ladders and Footholders being solid enough to hold a Chill Spike might be a problem.

Nitro Man: High applicability. Still a little lower than the remaining three, but I know he can be designed to accommodate a room with no walls.
*On Easy Mode, Nitro Man lacks the wall-climbing ability. perhaps he could detect a wall before doing a wheelie
*Similar arrangements have been made with Grenade Man in MMM. See what he does on a Tengu Man-style arena.

Pump Man: Very high applicability. I'm really hoping they include him. To make his fight interesting, vary the speed his Water Shield spins, or only make it eight bubble when he produces it in water or on the bottom two floor elevations in his room (add water floor animation from his original boss room), four bubbles in all other situations.

Strike Man: Very high applicability. See D-Man's description for my thoughts.

Commando Man: Very high applicability. Similar to Strike Man in jump movement and weapons that can't go through walls. As long as they leave out his shockwave attack, he should be fine.
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Re: MM10 Bosses and Their Applicability (Part 1)

Post by D-Man » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:33 pm

LeonardMan wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:03 pm
D-Man wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:00 am
the thought of a boss with type-based weaknesses is probably enough to deter the devs from considering him.
But there's currently few water weapons (relatively speaking) in the game! You got only Rain Flush, Water Wave, arguably Danger Wrap, and MAYBE they add Water Shield in this update (does Acid Barrier count as water-type?). In fact, water, ice and electric are the three elements that have the least amount of weapons dedicated to them in Mega Man Maker, with currently about 3 or 4 weapons each.
Danger Wrap is more of an explosive-type weapon, and cannot put out fires. Acid Barrier would probably be in its own category (not water). Not counting the GB games, there are not many water weapons in the series (Bubble Lead, Water Balloon, and Water Shield are the only missing ones.)
Now that I remember, Flame Man's ground wave attack could be pierced with Water Wave, so maybe type-based weaknesses aren't totally taboo.
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Re: MM10 Bosses Applicability (Part 1)

Post by D-Man » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:52 pm

TheKman100 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:26 pm
Blade Man: A solid "No". His attack pattern relies on walls and a ceiling, which can't always be provided for him.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Besides depending on walls & ceilings too much, he does nothing when on the ground on Normal Mode. Hard Mode has him do one dash toward the player before going back up the walls, which is still not enough.
TheKman100 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:26 pm
Nitro Man: High applicability. Still a little lower than the remaining three, but I know he can be designed to accommodate a room with no walls.
*On Easy Mode, Nitro Man lacks the wall-climbing ability. perhaps he could detect a wall before doing a wheelie
*Similar arrangements have been made with Grenade Man in MMM. See what he does on a Tengu Man-style arena.
Grenade Man will never use his Blazing Destroyer attack if there are no walls, and his dash stops at a certain point. For Nitro Man, he could first detect walls, as you said, and if there are none, he stops and goes back to his standard throws.
TheKman100 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:26 pm
Commando Man: Very high applicability. Similar to Strike Man in jump movement and weapons that can't go through walls. As long as they leave out his shockwave attack, he should be fine.
Since you analyzed both Blade and Commando Man, I'll have to do research on the Megaman Killers for the Part 2 of this post. Commando jumps higher than Chill, and they both have projectiles that react to solid terrain, so I'd give him an 8/10 in terms of applicability.
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Re: MM10 Bosses Applicability (Part 1)

Post by Zephadus » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:19 pm

I'm sure if the team is willing to make joke changes like Bubble Man crying like a bitch out of water, they'd likely be willing to adapt various Robot Master AI to function within different room parameters.
It's not super difficult to identify the walls and ceilings of a room.
The AI could look for tiles to the left, right, and above, and use whatever exists.
Alternatively, they could write completely new routines that don't depends on walls or ceilings.

Slash Man, for example, is intended to leap off the walls and into the area above the screen, where he drops sticky projectiles.
He could instead just, you know, jump straight up, off the screen.
It would look different, but would effectively be the same thing.
He also dives down at Mega Man in a diagonal direction.
If walls exist, he can slide down and then do his dive.
If not, he can just come in from the side of the screen.
I don't see why that wouldn't work.

Similarly, Blade Man uses the walls and ceilings.
If walls or ceilings don't exist, just fly off-screen like a ninja.
It may make the boss fight harder, and that may be used intentionally.
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Re: MM10 Bosses Applicability (Part 1)

Post by Brazencoronet17 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:33 pm

I think Solar Man would work fine.
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Reach out for the sunshine
Forget about the rain
Just think about the good times
And they will come back again

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